WTF Illinois?

"You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much" (youcantellafinn) 01/22/2015 at 11:44 • Filed to: None

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Seriously, WTF? Politics / 4th and 5th Amendment issue after the jump. For everyone else, rally on courtesy of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

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Illinois just passed a law saying that their schools can compel students to give up their social media passwords. Last I checked the 5th Amendment protected people from being forced to testify against themselves. How the Illinois law doesn't violate the 5th Amendment is beyond me. I would think it would also violate the 4th Amendment protections from unreasonable search and seizure.

How in the shit can they get away with !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ? I'm no lawyer, but I can't believe that this can fly. It would seem to be a direct violation of the 4th and 5th Amendments. Hopefully Illinois gets the everliving shit kicked out of them by someones lawyer for this mess of a law.

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Racescort666 > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:46

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They weren't having good luck with the 2nd Amendment so they decided to go after some other ones.

Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:46

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They can legally ask... but do they have to answer?

Mattbob > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:48

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wow. This is insane. I'll have to give my brother some shit about this. He lives there and HATES it.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:48

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Absurd. The ACLU will be on this like bacon on burgers.

505Turbeaux > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:48

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terrible

Alex B > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:48

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WTF indeed.

For Sweden > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:48

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This is the state that destroys airports in the middle of the night and sells seats to the national legislature. What were you expecting?

macanamera > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:51

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Yeah right, nobody would give it anyways.

jariten1781 > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:53

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"Bully" is the new buzz word. Pols can't vote against anything, no matter how ridiculous or anti-constitution if it relates to 'bullying' or they'll get slammed in their next campaign for 'supporting child abuse' or some such nonsense. Expect more of this junk, not less.

Think of the children man.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped 01/22/2015 at 11:54

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According to the article they can press criminal charges if you refuse to tell them your passwords. I don't see that a conviction would hold up in court if someone were to refuse to turn over their password. The problem is that a kid can be seriously intimidated into thinking that they will go to jail if they don't turn over their password and once they "voluntarily" do it they have recourse and anything found on their social media can open them up to criminal charges. Since they "voluntarily" turned over their password anything found on the social media is fair game as evidence and they won't be able to get it removed from evidence in a future trial.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > For Sweden 01/22/2015 at 11:55

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Bribes, kickbacks and coke?

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > macanamera 01/22/2015 at 11:56

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Threaten a 12 or 13 year old with jail time and I suspect most of them will give up the password.

Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:56

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Thats just bullshit

spanfucker retire bitch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:57

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This would never stand up in a court of law.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 11:59

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Nothing ever surprises me about this state anymore. At least the food music and hockey is good though

Enginerrrrrrrrr > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:01

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But since the kids are minors, I feel the parents/guardians would HAVE to be involved. It's not the same as locker searches, the school doesn't own the "social media property" (don't know a better word for it). The school doesn't have the ability to go after bullying in this manner, the police would have to be involved. Once the police are involved and a warrant is issued, well it's pretty much over at that point.

Pretty sure this will fail hard with some basic lawyering if it's written as-is.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > spanfucker retire bitch 01/22/2015 at 12:02

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I would think if someone refuses to turn over their password and gets charged any conviction wouldn't hold up. But the damage that can be done by people turning over their passwords to avoid criminal charges can't be undone once it happens even if the law is eventually struck down as being unconstitutional.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Enginerrrrrrrrr 01/22/2015 at 12:04

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Even if the police have a warrant to access your social media you are not compelled to turn over your password. That would be protected by the 5th Amendment. Granted once the police have a warrant they can probably get everything just by going direct to the social media provider.

spanfucker retire bitch > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:04

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I don't even know why they passed this law in the first place. If they think a law was broken by the offending student, get a fucking warrant and send it to Facebook, they'll be able to give you more detailed information about the account than simply logging into the offender's account in the first place.

"Oh, you need my Facebook password because I posted mean things on someone's wall? Well let me just that hand...that....over..to...you *deletes post*. And there you go officer. See? I've done nothing wrong."

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped 01/22/2015 at 12:05

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Yes it is. Hopefully the people of Illinois stand up and let out a collective WTF and get this law overturned. I don't even live there and shit like this pisses me off.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Racescort666 01/22/2015 at 12:05

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Unfortunately that seems to be the truth.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:06

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Ah ok yeah that makes sense.

Then yeah, I guess the 5th amendment pretty much crushes this whole thing.

Textured Soy Protein > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:06

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Schools try to intrude on students' freedoms in ways that feel decidedly unconstitutional but generally hold up to legal challenges because schools are considered to be acting in loco parentis - basically in place of the parents. It's not quite a do-whatever-you-want card for the schools*, but it gives them a lot more leeway than say, the police would have in compelling an adult to give up information about themselves.

* In the supreme court case New Jersey v. T. L. O. , the ruling included a sentence "In carrying out searches and other disciplinary functions pursuant to such policies, school officials act as representatives of the State, not merely as surrogates for the parents, and they cannot claim the parents' immunity from the strictures of the Fourth Amendment."

(The case was about a girl who was caught smoking cigarettes in the bathroom, was compelled by the principal to allow her purse to be searched. The principal found the cigs in her purse, but kept searching for more stuff, and discovered the girl was dealing pot based on the search. She sued saying that her 4th amendment rights were violated.)

The supreme court ruled that the school needed to have reasonable suspicion to carry out the search, but in this case, the girl being caught smoking in the bathroom met the standard of reasonable suspicion.

It would appear that the Illinois policy was written to take this reasonable suspicion requirement into account:

School authorities may require a student or his or her parent/guardian to provide a password or other related account information in order to gain access to his/her account or profile on a social networking website if school authorities have reasonable cause to believe that a student's account on a social networking site contains evidence that a student has violated a school disciplinary rule or procedure .

Of course, defining reasonable cause/suspicion is tricky business, and there's certainly the possibility of abuse by the schools. But the policy in and of itself does have some legal grounds to exist.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:10

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This violates a few federal communication laws so I'd tell them to go pound sand.

Imirrelephant > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:15

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Typical IL knee jerk law. We're full of them.

With any luck the backlash will cause it to be overturned. Then again, this is IL where voter apathy is the only thing that can keep up with the rampant corruption.

WiscoProud > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:15

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I just moved after living in Chicago for eight years. This doesn't surprise me at all. The Illinois, Cook County, and City of Chicago governments have a long history of pushing through questionable legislation that sounds good at the time, but is questionable, or even unconstitutional. I'll miss Chicago, but not that nonsense.

Svend > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:20

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WHAT THE HELL!

I could understand if it was a court or legal matter after having been arrested for an offence where further evidence could be gleaned from searching through these sources but for a SCHOOL! On the pretext of 'stopping cyberbullying' is rubbish.

If cyber bullying is found to of taken place you take evidence to the police.

With this you could easily get out of it by saying that your school also has access to your accounts and you can't verify their security and so it could of been anyone.

Doh!

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:31

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This will be overturned by the courts. Also, why do the schools need the password, when the police can subpoena the social network directly? You know, after an actual crime takes place.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:32

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Exactly. At that age, kids still believe that "permanent record" thing, too.

450X_FTW > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 12:58

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Can you just say that you don't remember your password?

450X_FTW > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 13:00

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Add making it illegal to film police, now that's a FELONY in Illinois. Anytime I ride my motorcycle I have my gopro running, just in case some A hole jumps out in front or wrecks me, I have it all on film. So by their new law if I happen to film a cop while riding my bike, I just committed a felony

http://www.ibtimes.com/illinois-passe…

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > 450X_FTW 01/22/2015 at 13:22

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The Supreme Court has made it clear with multiple decisions that it is legal to film police in a public space as long as you don't interfere with their ability to do their jobs. That doesn't mean there aren't cops who will threaten to arrest you and try to get you to turn over you camera for filming them, but based on Supreme Court precedent as long as you aren't interfering with their ability to do their job it is completely legal.

* Not a lawyer and not saying that they can't arrest you and try to charge you with something and generally make your life miserable and expensive, but it is legal to film police regardless of what state or local law says.

450X_FTW > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 13:26

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Oh I know it's not illegal, but the fact that Illinois is trying to make special laws for people because of their occupation is batshit crazy in itself

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > 450X_FTW 01/22/2015 at 13:36

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Oh I know it's not illegal, but the fact that Illinois is trying to make special laws for people because of their occupation is batshit crazy in itself

There, fixed it.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I grew up in Michigan and worked for a while in Wisconsin. FIB's have a special place in my heart.

450X_FTW > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 13:39

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Had to check urban dictionary for FIB. That's hilarious. And I'm from Michigan as well, so I hear ya.

Spoon II > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 14:01

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It's class action lawsuit o'clock! All those kids parents should file against the local government. Not so much for money, but to just get rid of that terrible law.

AdverseMartyr > For Sweden 01/22/2015 at 14:06

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Your forgetting that dead people still vote there as well.

AdverseMartyr > Imirrelephant 01/22/2015 at 14:13

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The two tend to go hand in hand. I can't really blame people for having apathy when you know that someone has probably already paid to ensure the outcome of the election.

Dusty Ventures > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 01/22/2015 at 22:27

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On the subject of idiocy in the school system, this is why people make jokes about Alabama education